NIBE Fighter Boiler Problems

Frequently Asked Questions

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Do normal trickle wall vents let in as much air as Nibes wall vents?

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Where on the Energy Performance Certificate does it mention my homes heating demand?

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When the pump is inactive and the house is warm, does it literally stop recycling the warm air and blow it all outside?

1. Yes

2. Yes, and you'll find it's blowing warmer than indoor air as well

3. The reason it blows out warmer exhasut air than room temp when the compressor is off is because of the heat created from the housing of the compressor...thats all...mind yo the fact that it blows your heat out when its not heating at a rate of 110M3 an hour is just stupid anyway

Although Nibe won't send their engineers unless absolutely necessary, should they at least come out to explain and demo the system?

1. Your HA may already have someone with considerable knowledge, to show you how. But, it would be nice to speak to the installer directly.

2. I emailed Nibe a few months ago and after they took all my settings, they sent someone out within days & fixed my compressor without me having to ask

3. NIBE are fairly good at responding if you need help... unfortunately the product is not ideal so most end users however competent will never get it to the advertised savings (which have now been removed from sale literature)

4. Not even installers get a helping hand from NIBE

In Sweden 50% of Electricity is produced my water movement (hydro damns) so its electricity is not as CO2 rich as that in the UK.Not only that 75% of homes pre 1970 in Sweden used to heat there homes with oil unfortunately there was an oil crisis in 1970 which made them re think their power supply and by 2009 people homes run on oil had fallen to 32% and moved to electrical heating for the homes. Should we be comparing a country that does not have a gas grid network against the UK which does?

1. No we should not! Swedens power supply is completely different to the UKs the only possible comparison would be people off the gas grid. If you connected to the gas grid then no way should you opt for heat pumps unless your electricity is connected to a green power source...

What's the difference between Coefficient of performance (COP) and system efficiency?

1. COP is the amount of heat produced by the heat pump compared to the amount electricity it uses. The higher the COP, the better. System efficiency is the amount of heat produced compared to the amount of electricity used by the whole system, heat pump, pumps and other components.

2. So the CoP of the NIBE 360 for example is 2,6 and if you then include the fan running at an average of 140w then the efficiency would be 210%. Note the CoP is calculated within certain set of "lab" conditions this is the EN 14511

Does the Fighter 360p qualify for the Renewable Heat Incentive, if not why?

1. No, they are not classified as renewable under the Renewable Energy Directive as they do not rely solely on outside air

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Why has NIBE recently changed their sales literature is it because the BRE and DECC close down loop holes so that such Exhaust air heat pumps cannot make building regs any more?

1. Due to recent changes in the building regulations and the MCS requirements a product such as the NIBE 360 or 200 would no longer comply.Some have seen this move by the Government as a direct response to the current issues being faced by people experiencing high bills.

In Sweden it is law that when fitting an exhaust air heat pump the U values of the home must be HALVED why in the UK is it that this is not the case?

1. Yes

Is it good for my system to be throwing out my homes heat from my exhaust outlet?

1. This is probably the biggest downfall of the product. When the heat pump stops working the fans continue to run which basically is dragging in cold air whilst throwing out your home heat...the product has tried to comply with ventilation building regs in the UK but possibly shot its self in the foot with its own silver bullet

Why is there a lot of negative feeling in the heat pump industry toward the director of NIBE UK?

1. NIBE has given incorrect efficiency data to companies like the BRE. The BRE design and advise the Government of energy efficiency and building regulations in the UK. An investigation into these figures is currently being conducted by UKAS as the BREs certificate for the NIBE 360 was incorrect due to this mis information. Many heat pump engineers are concerned this has shone a negative light on the heat pump industry.As you see the DECC recently changing the figure for heat pumps COP as the previous figures were incorrect.

If I turn off my system and run electric fan heaters will I be better off ?

1. Yes

2. You would be without hot water and ventilation

3. Yes you would be with out hot water so you would need to switch on the immersion and switch off the fans. best done on the 360p...in cold weather ...say around 7C and below doing this has proven to save money. for ventilation you can opt for he free ventilation system you have in your home...its called a window and you can open it

Why did NIBE lie when they wrote to BPHA and facebook pages stating they had no part on selling or sizing the units to the developers when in fact they commissioned a company called NC designs to do this work?

1. Because they do not want to admit liability. However if it goes to court then be sure NC designs will pipe up as NIBE will peruse action against them

Why has the DECC close the loop hole so such devices such as these will no longer comply in new building regulations.

1. To stop companies like NIBE

Why have NIBE quoted in formal meetings that the NIBE 360 and 200 have a COP of 3?

1. NIBE has constantly mis informed the industry so if they now say its CoP is 2,6 then there will be a lot of questions asked. The fact is in the manual the specs give a cop of 2,6 so its really odd they did that...but a COP of 3 looks better on building regs etc.

Why has nibe blocked independent reports as commercially sensitive?

1. because the reports indicate some major floors in the 360 and 200 product

Is it a good idea for the fan to run even after my heat pump has stopped working and the home is heated etc? Surely sukcing in more outside air and blowing out my heat is no good?

1. No

Domestic heating guidance notes 2006 state that a if a heat pump cannot heat the water to 60-65C then it must use some other form of power and default to those set of requirements. The NIBE 360 and 200 can only heat the water using the heat pump function to 56C max. The default electric requires a boiler interlock why does the NIBE not have a boiler interlock?

1. NHBC are currently investigating. If you are a home owner and you have some one like the NHBC then you must snag this as a concern.

In the UK electricity is currently 2.94 more CO2 producing than gas per kw. How efficient does an Exhaust air heat pump need to be to match a gas boiler?

1. you would need the heat pump to be at least 280% efficient.The NIBE 360 and 200 are in lab conditions 260% in home use 210% and worse than that as the outside temp drops as they suck in that cold air into your home

Will my HA expect me to use the immersion to heat everything during winter?

1. Yes

2. Yes, even though it means using 20, 30, may be 40Kw per day!

3. Yes they will. They say, the heavy electricity use weighs against the light use for the rest of the year

4. Unfortunatley there is no escaping the fact that you will at some point have to switch to winter mode as the system drags alot of cold air into your home...bit like leaving a door open really

5. Its basic thermodynamics...if you allow outside air into your home at a rate of 110m3 an hour then when that air drops in temp say to about 7C then your home cannot keep up...with any heat form you will be burning twice as much if not more....thermodynamics or just common sense

Why does my wall thermostat not work?

1. It hasn't been activated. They've only been putting thermostats in to satisfy tenants that were scared of touching the offset heating curve.

2. The Thermostat is a waste of time...ignore it use the flow control on the machine try to keep the flow temps low not above 40C

Is it right that Nibe will only send a Nibe technician only when you've had the boiler tested by a heating expert?

1. Correct!

2. Many faults with heat pumps are due to either installation or setup not product failure, in order to provide a good level of service to those who have a genuine product failure, heat pump manufacturers require that these issues have been ruled out.

3. NIBE them selves have passed off bad installations at BPHA homes of circa 150 homes and yet 3 months later said there must be a problem with the install? go figure... usual bull form NIBE

4. Unfortunately there seems to have been some evidence of NIBE UK turning a blind eye to bad installs and actually signing these off . Not a good look for NIBE UK :(.

Why do people say gas boilers are more efficient than these heat pumps? How can I prove it?

1. Because they are not heating experts and clearly do not understand thermodynamics

2. This can be proven by referencing independant test data supplied by the BRE that is trusted by the government to conduct testing to ensure compliance with the Building regulations and system performance.

3. Ok although a heat pump is more efficient than a gas boiler DO NOT be confused by this sales man tactic.....its about CO2 output and cost.....Electricty is 2.94 times more CO2 producing than gas so you elctric boiler would need to be at least 280% efficient to even match a gas boiler.....secondly gas is 3 to 4 times cheaper than electricity so again you would need at least 300 or 400% efficient electric heat pump to match gas..

4. So yes a gas boiler is more efficient the an Exhaust Air heat pump especially the NIBE 360 and 200 however an air source heat pump may be able to meet that of a gas boiler...but lets not forget electricity causes acid rain etc ...gas does not

5. Note* The BRE are currently under investigation by UKAS as some errors had been made in the certifying of NIBE products for MCS...Also the BRE created the SAP reports (energy efficiency certificates) Unfortunately there were some loop holes in the SAP calc and Unfortunately some companies such as NIBE used those loop holes to their advantage...fortunatley the BRE has recognised the floor and closed the loop holes down hence why the exhaust air heat pump like the 360 and 200 will never again blight the developers books... unfortunately there are many people stuck with them

6. and the BRE certainly do not condone putting in electric heating ontop of gas....hence why the changed the SAP calculation recently to offset answer 2 ,,,,which is extremely mis informed...

7. CAll the enrgy saving trust and ask them if you have a gas connection should you use a heat pump...they will say noooooooooooooooooooooooo

What amount of space can the Fighter 360p heat according to it's manual?

1. The Fighter 360P manual does state a space which it can heat, the Fan is capable of ventilating up to 160m2 based on 0.30 l/s (as per Part F of the building regulations). This heat pump should be used in applications with not greater than a 4kW heating demand.

2. Well thats new because the director of NIBE UK said 4.5Kw......

3. You need to ask your HA how your homes heat load was calculated and what the total was if its above 4kw then it is an illegal install...NOTE the flats in Runcorn all came well within the heat load capacity's as they were built to code level 4 ....so its not all about the heat loads....your main enemy is the constant fan dragging in untreated outside air

If my house is built to Code Level 3 for Sustainable Housing and connected to gas, should it have an electric boiler?

1. No if your getting your electricity off the grid then no way jose should you be using electricity run heating ...if you have a green source like a massive bloody wind farm attached to your home then ok. Even the Energy saving trust will tell you that

Is the heat pump supposed to work all year round? And, is it right the HA says there's no choice but to use the immersion, if it's not working?

1. Unfortunately if there is a interuption in the operation of the heat pump then the Immersion will be required to maintain comfort until the problem is rectified. Due to high levels of air tightness in new build housing, continueous ventilation is required, also, throughout the year the Domestic Hot Water demand remains constant, meaning that ventilation and Hot water production is required all year round. The NIBE heat pumps are weather compensating so will adjust the level of heating supplied dependant on the outdoor temperature.

2. Yeah but they are an Exhaust air heat pump and drag in 110 M3 of outside air every hour to your home they are not suitable for domestic use...